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LEGACY

Aleister Crowley

130 odgovora11,962 pregleda
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#1
evo jedan deo iz Crowleyeve "Magick in theory and practice" sto mozda bude zanimljivo nekome ko voli da sazna razne strane novcica... I) DEFINITION Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will. Illustration: It is my Will to inform the World of certain facts within my knowledge. I therefore take "magickal weapons", pen, ink, and paper; I write "incantations"---these sentences---in the "magickal language" ie, that which is understood by the people I wish to instruct; I call forth "spirits", such as printers, publishers, booksellers and so forth and constrain them to convey my message to those people. The composition and distribution of this book is thus an act of Magick by which I cause Changes to take place in conformity with my Will. note: In one sense Magick may be defined as the name given to Science by the vulgar. II) POSTULATE ANY required change may be effected by the application of the proper kind and degree of Force in the proper manner, through the proper medium to the proper object. Illustration: I wish to prepare an ounce of Chloride of Gold. I must take the right kind of acid, nitro-hydrochloric and no other, in a vessel which will not break, leak or corrode, in such a manner as will not produce undesirable results, with the necessary quantity of Gold: and so forth. Every change has its own conditions. In the present state of our knowledge and power some changes are not possible in practice; we cannot cause eclipses, for instance, or transform lead into tin, or create men from mushrooms. But it is theoretically possible to cause in any object any change of which that object is capable by nature; and the conditions are covered by the above postulate. III) THEOREMS 1) Every intentional act is a Magickal act. Illustration: See "Definition" above. note:By "intentional" is meant "willed" But even unintentional acts so seeming are not truly so. Thus, breathing is an act of the Will to Live. 2) Evey successful act has conformed to the postulate. 3) Every failure proves that one or more requirements of the postulate have not been fulfilled. Illustrations: There may be failure to understand the case, as when a doctor makes a wrong diagnosis, and his treatment injures the patient. There may be a failure to apply the right kind of force, as when a rustic tries to blow out an electric light. There may be failure to apply the right degree of force, as when a wrestler has his hold broken, There may be failure to apply the force in the right manner, as when one presents a cheque at the wrong window of the Bank. There may be failure to employ the correct medium, as when Leonardo da Vinci saw his masterpiece fade away. The force may be applied to an unsuitable object, as when one tries to crack a stone, thinking it a nut. 4) The first requisite for causing any change is thorough qualitative and quantitative understanding of the conditions. Illustration: The most common cause of failure in life is ignorance of one's own True Will, or of the means to fulfill that Will. A man may fancy himself a painter, and waste his life trying to become one; or he may really be a painter, and yet fail to understand and to measure the difficulties peculiar to that career. 5) The second requisite of causing any change is the practical ability to set in right motion the necessary forces. Illustration: A banker may have a perfect grasp of a given situation, yet lack the quality of decision, or the assets, necessary to take advantage of it. 6) "Every man and every woman is a star". That is to say, every human being is intrinsically an independent individual with his own proper character and proper motion. 7) Every man and every woman has a course, depending partly on the self, and partly on the environment which is natural and necessary for each. Anyone who is forced from his own course, either through not understanding himself, or through external opposition, comes into conflict with the order of the Universe, and suffers accordingly. Illustration: A man may think it is his duty to act in a certain way, through having made a fancy picture of himself, instead of investigating his actual nature. For example, a woman may make herself miserable for life by thinking that she prefers love to social consideration, or vice versa. One woman may stay with an unsympathetic husband when she would really be happy in an attic with a lover, while another may fool herself into a romantic elopement when her only pleasures are those of presiding over fashionable functions. Again, a boy's instinct may tell him to go to sea, while his parents insist on his becoming a doctor. In such a case he will be both unsuccessful and unhappy in medicine. 8) A Man whose conscious will is at odds with his True Will is wasting his strength. He cannot hope to influence his environment efficiently. Illustration: When Civil War rages in a nation, it is in no condition to undertake the invasion of other countries. A man with cancer employs his nourishment alike to his own use and to that of the enemy which is part of himself. He soon fails to resist the pressure of his environment. In practical life, a man who is doing what his conscience tells him to be wrong will do it very clumsily. At first! 9) A Man who is doing his True Will has the inertia of the Universe to assist him. Illustration: The first principle of success in evolution is that the individual should be true to his own nature, and at the same time adapt himself to his environment. 10) Nature is a continuous phenomenon, though we may not know in all cases how things are connected. Illustration: Human comsciousness depends on the properties of protoplasm, the existence of which depends on innumerable physical conditions peculiar to this planet; and this planet is determined by the mechanical balance of the whole universe of matter. We may then say that our consciousness is causally connected with the remotest galaxies; yet we do not even know how it arises from--or with--the molecular changes in the brain. 11) Science enables us to take advantage of the continuity of Nature by the empirical application of certain principles whose interplay involves different orders of idea connected with each other in a way beyond our present comprehension. Illustration: We are able to light cities by rule-of-thumb methods. We do not know what consciousness is, or how it is connected with muscular action; what electricity is or how it is connected with the machines that generate it; and our methods depend on calculations involving mathematical ideas which have no correspondance in the Universe as we know it. note: For instance "irrational", "unreal" and "infinite" expressions. 12) Man is ignorant of the nature of his own being and powers. Even his idea of his limitations is based on experience of the past, and every step in his progress extends his empire. There is therefore no reason to assign theoretical limits to what he may be, or what he may do. Illustration: A generation ago it was supposed theoretically impossible that man should ever know the composition of the fixed stars. It is known that our senses are adapted to receive only a fraction of the possible rates of vibration.Modern instruments have enabled us to detect some of these supra-sensibles by indirect methods, and even to use their peculiar qualities in the service of man, as in the case of the rays of Hertz and Roentgen. As Tyndall said, man might at any moment learn to percieve and utilize vibrations of all concievable and inconcievable kinds. The question of Magick is a question of discovering and employing hitherto unknown forces in nature. We know that they exist, and we cannot doubt the possibility of mental or physical instruments capable of bringing us into relation with them. note: i.e., except---possibly---in the case of logically absurd questions such as the Schoolmen discussed in connection with "God".
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#2
13) Every man is more or less aware that his individuality comprises several orders of existence, even when he maintains that his subtler principles are merely symptomatic of the changes in his gross vehicle. A similar order may be assumed to extend throughout nature. Illustration: One does not confuse the pain of a toothache with the decay that causes it. Inanimate objects are sensitive to certain physical forces, such as electrical and thermal conductivity; but neither in us nor in them--so far as we know--is there any direct conscious perception of these forces. Imperceptible influences are therefore associated with all material phenomena; and there is no reason why we should not work upon matter through these subtle energies as we do through their material bases. In fact, we use magnetic force to move iron and solar radiation to reproduce images. 14) Man is capable of being, and using, anything which he perceives, for everything which he perceives is in a certain sense a part of his being. He may thus subjugate the whole of the Universe of which he is conscious to his individual Will. Illustration: Man has used the idea of God to dictate his personal conduct, to obtain power over his fellows, to excuse his crimes, and for innumerable other purposes, including that of realizing himself as God. He has used the irrational and unreal conceptions of mathematics to help him in the construction of mechanical devices. He has used his moral force to influence the actions even of wild animals. He has employed poetic genius for political purposes. 15) Every force in the Universe is capable of being transformed into any other kind of force by using suitable means. There is thus an inexhaustible supply of any particular kind of force that we may need. Illustration: Heat may be transformed into light and power by using it to drive dynamos. The vibrations of the air may be used to kill men by so ordering them in speech so as to inflame war-like passions. The hallucinations connected with the mysterious energies of sex result in the perpetuation of the species. 16) The application of any given force affects all the orders of being which exist in the object in the object to which it is applied, whichever of of those orders is directly affected. Illustration: If I strike a man with a dagger, his consciousness, not his body only, is affected by my act, although the dagger, as such, has no direct relation therewith. Similarly, the power of my thought may so work on the mind of another person as to produce far-reaching physical changes in him, or in others through him. 17) A man may learn to use any force so as to serve any purpose, by taking advantage of the above theorems. Illustration: A man may use a razor to make himself vigilant over his speech, by using it to cut himself whenever he ungaurdedly utters a chosen word. He may serve the same purpose by resolving that every incident of his life shall remind him of a particular thing, making every impression the starting point of a connected series of thoughts ending in that thing. He might also devote his whole energies to some one particular object, by resolving to do nothing at variance therewith, and to make every act turn to the advantage of that object. 18) He may attract to himself any force of the Universe by making himself a fit receptacle for it, and arranging conditions so that its nature compels it to flow toward him. Illustration: If I want pure water to drink, I dig a well in a place where there is underground water; I prevent it from leaking away; and I arrange to take advantage of water's accordance with the laws of Hydrostatics to fill it. 19) Man's sense of himself as seperate from, and opposed to, the Universe is a bar to his conducting its currents. It insulates him. Illustration: A popular leader is most successful when he forgets himself and remembers only "The Cause". Self-seeking engenders jealousies and schism. When the organs of the body assert their presence other by silent satisfaction, it is a sign they are diseased. The single exception is the organ of reproduction. Yet even in this case its self-assertion bears witness to its dissatisfaction with itself, since it cannot fulfil its function until completed by its counterpart in another organism. 20) Man can only attract and employ the forces for which he is really fitted. Illustration: You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. A true man of science learns from every phenomeneon. But Nature is dumb to the hypocrite; for in her there is nothing false. note: It is no objection that the hypocrite is himself part of Nature. He is an "endothermic" product, divided against himself, with a tendency to break up. He will see his own qualities everywhere, and thus obtain a radical misconception of phenomena. Most religions of the past have failed by expecting nature to conform with their ideals of proper conduct.
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#3
21) There is no limit to the extent of the relations of any man with the Universe in essence; for as soon as man makes himself one with any idea the means of measurement cease to exist. But his power to utilize that force is limited by his mental power and capacity, and by the circumstances of his human environment. Illustration: When a man falls in love, the whole world becomes, to him, nothing but love boundless and immanent; but his mystical state is not contagious; his fellow-men are either amused or annoyed. He can only extend to others the effect which his love has had upon himself by means of his mental and physical qualities. Thus Catullus, Dante and Swinburne made their love a mighty mover of mankind by virtue of their power to put their thoughts on the subject in musical and eloquent language. Again, Cleopatra and other people in authority moulded the fortunes of many other people by allowing love to influence their political actions. The Magician, however well he succeed in making contact with the secret sources of energy in nature, can only use them to the extent permitted by his intellectual and moral qualities. Mohammed's intercourse with Gabriel was only effective because of his statesmanship, soldiership, and the sublimity of his command of Arabic. Hertz's discovery of the rays which we now use for wireless telegraphy was sterile until it reflected through the minds and wills of the people who could take his truth and transmit it to the world of action by means of mechanical and economic instruments. 22) Every individual is essentially sufficient to himself. But he is unsatisfactory to himself until he has established himself in his right relation with the universe. Illustration: A microscope, however perfect, is useless in the hands of savages. A poet, however sublime, must impose himself upon his generation if he is to enjoy (and even to understand) himself, as theoretically should be the case. 23) Magick is the Science of understanding oneself and one's conditions. It is the Art of applying that understanding in action. Illustration: A golf club is intended to move a special ball in a special way in special circumstances. A Niblick should rarely be used on the tee or a brassie under the bank of a bunker. But also, the use of any club demands skill and experience. 24) Every man has an indefeasible right to be what he is. Illustration: To insist that any one else should comply with one's own standards is to outrage, not only him, but oneself, since both parties are equally born of necessity. 25) Every man must do Magick each time he acts or even thinks, since a thought is an internal act whose influence ultimately affects action, though it may not do so at the time. Illustration: The least gesture causes a change in a man's own body and in the air around him; it disturbs the balance of the entire Universe, and its effects continue eternally throughout all space. Every thought, however swiftly suppressed, has its effect on the mind. It stands as one of the causes of every subsequent thought, and tends to influence every subsequent action. A golfer may lose a few yards on his drive, a few more with his second and third, he may lie on the green six bare inches too far from the hole, but the net result of these trifling mishaps is the difference between halving and losing the hole. 26) Every man has a right, the right of self preservation, to fulfill himself to the utmost. Illustration: A function imperfectly performed injures, not only itself, but everything associated with it. If the heart is afraid to beat for fear of disturbing the liver, the liver is starved for blood and avenges itself on the heart by upsetting digestion, which disorders respiration, on which cardiac welfare depends. note: Men of "criminal nature" are simply at issue with their true Wills. The murderer has the Will to Live; and his will to murder is a false will at variance with his true Will, since he risks death at the hands of Society by obeying his criminal impulse. 27) Every man should make Magick the keystone of his life. He should learn its laws and live by them. Illustration: The Banker should discover the real meaning of his existence, the real motive which led him to choose that profession. He should under-stand banking as a necessary factor in the economic existence of mankind instead of merely a business whose objects are independant of the general welfare. He should learn to distinguish false values from real, and to act not on accidental fluctuations but on considerations of essential importance. Such a banker will prove himself superior to others; because he will not be an individual limited by transitory things, but a force of Nature, as impersonal, impartial and eternal as gravitation, as patient and irresistable as the tides. His system will not be subject to panic, any more than the law of Inverse Squares is disturbed by elections. He will not be anxious about his affairs because they will not be his; and for that reason he will be able to direct them with the calm, clear-headed confidence of an onlooker, with intelligence unclouded by self-interest, and power unimpaired by passion. 28) Every man has a right to fulfill his own will without being afraid that it may interfere with that of others; for if he is in his proper place, it is the fault of others if they interfere with him. Illustration: If a man like Napoleon were actually appointed by destiny to control Europe, he should not be blamed for exercising his rights. To oppose him would be an error. Any one so doing would have made a mistake as to his own destiny, except insofar as it mught be necessary for him to learn the lessons of defeat. The sun moves in space without interference. the order of nature provides an orbit for each star. A clash proves that one or the other has strayed from its course. But as to each man that keeps his true course, the more firmly he acts, the less likely others are to get in his way. His example will helpthem to find their own paths and pursue them. Every man that becomes a Magician helps others to do likewise. The more firmly and surely men move, and the more such action is accepted as the standard of morality, the less will conflict and confusion hamper humanity.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#4
Evo ovde isti autor, ista tema ali u drugoj knjizi. I ovde je na hrvatskome. `ta je magika? (Magika bez suza)
Zabljak 1992POZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#5
znaci ako me ista ne zanima tj. da zelim ostat potpuno neznaven to je Aleister Crowly.kakav Aleister Crowly jeste li vi normalni.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#6
A ti nemoj itat :hippy: A ata to zna i bit "normalan"? Pojasni, molin te.
Zabljak 1992POZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#7
nemam ni namjeru.NE proucavat a. crowley znaci bit normalan.od milion stvari koje valja znat crowley je zadnji na listi.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#8
A zaato? Nije mi jasno zaato? `ta isko ie koja babaroga...:b_evil:... Kako mo~ea sudit o ne emu o emu nemaa blage veze? Kako znaa to ata tvrdia? Jesi mo~da proba pa mo~ea autoritativno stat iza toga ata ka~ea?
vrtlarENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#9
potpisujem
Zabljak 1992POZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#10
procitao sam ponesto o krauliju ali sam brzo isgubio volju sto mi je drago btw.prijatelju znas li sto znaci u 21. vijeku propagirati bilo kakvu `magiju`.nazadnost svake vrste.to je meni u istu ravan sa ovim babama sto narodu uzimaju pare ljudima na gluposti samo sto je krauli imao malo vise uticaja na nesrecu.kakva crna magija....
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#11
E moj prika...po tvom odgovoru to no vidin da nemaa pojma o emu pri aa. Govoria ono ata ti je neko drugi uprogramira da je to tako. O kakvoj ti crnoj magiji pri aa? Nema spomena "magiji" a kamoli crnoj. Crowley je rafinira sistem i nazva ga magika. Da si pro ita, sku~ija bi da nema neke velike razlike izmeu aamanizma npr. i njegovog sustava "magike". U negovim "nau avanjima", nema "popovanja". Jedni cilje apsolutna sloboda, apsolutno samoostvarenje, tzv Veliki Rad. Njegov sistem samospoznaje je zapadnja ka verzija najdrevnije ljudske vjeatine - a to je Magika. Ljudi se dive aamanima kako oni to sve skupa...jednostavno, Magika. Ili si zadrti katolik i pop je namisi upozor'ja na neke tamo Sotonine prokletnike i ima taj Als'ter Krovlej, i on tio je sotona ~iva, eeee, nu! on ti se 666 nazva...ee on ti je Antikrist.eeeee Abant'i 'krr Issovu. Mislin nemoraa prou avat, ali ko ti (ili ikome) daje opravo da sudi (da blati ili uzdi~e) o ne emu o emu nema blage veze? Ali mo~da je i bolje, stara latinska ka~e: Diamantes ante porcos :b_evil: :hippy: :b_evil:
pecko88ENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#12
Izvinite me sta ulazim u polemiku..sorry...:sad2: Potpis... A gdje si ovo procitao...?? Razume se u njegovim knjigama. Pozdrav....:bis:
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#13
Vi niste ni svesni sta zapravo radite. Pa zar se I vi sami neborite protiv predrasuda? Ovamo kao legalizacija, oni nemaju razumevanja, treba da ih edukujemo& a sad vi isto tako, puni predrasuda? U redu je neslagati se ali potpis, potpis, potpis je totalna budalastina. Ako se neslazes OBJASNI zasto! Ovako deluje kao da niste ni procitali ili jednostavno nerazumete& ali ako se nerazumemo treba da otvoreno radimo na tome I da dodjemo de neke produktivne rasprave, pa ako ste u pravu da pomognete nama da nezastranjujemo. Kako ste pomogli na ovaj nacin?
High Times

jun 2008.

#14
Zabljak 1992(sta je bilo te god.?) je sebe proglasija normalnim,a normalno je da ga vuce znatizelja cime se bave "nenormalni",samo nije on kaskader i umara ga skrolat duge dzibine textove,pa nemora se sve procitat odjednom,ostavis za sjutra,prekosjutra ha ha
Zabljak 1992POZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#15
Koji crni katolik...dje si mene nasao sve bi popove mokrom krpom mlatio,oni se prvi bave magijom...sigurno znas vise o alisteru i potrudicu se da procitam vise ali mrshtim se na te gurue koji ce te naucit da se samospoznas.to ne mozes naucit od nikoga.inace latinski slabo znam pa mozes da prevedes ako ti nije tesko.
Kurblaj KanAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#16
ini mi se da sotonisti(LaVey sotonisti, ne retardirana djeca koja okreu kri~eve) imau esto zanimanje za Crowleya. Svakako je jedan od ljudi koje planiram prou iti sam ima toliko toga da neznam kad e doi na red
loobiENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#17
Neznam, puni ste tudjih misljenja... A sta da nema tih knjiga, mi se kao nebih znali samo razvijati? Sumnjam. Ja sam poceo bez knjiga, sam sa sobom, i kad sam poceo citai jos literature o necemu, samo sam nalazio stvari, do kojih sam sam dosao, i stvari koje sam vec apsolvirao bez icije pomoci. Da se RAZUMJEMO, ne kazem ja da su ti spisi losi, ali ponekad neki ljudi kad procitaju, neku knjigu, od nekih tamo autotarivnih autora samo stanu iza toga, bez da razmislise, sta zaista misle od tome. Ja i onako smatram, da mi Ljudi sve vec znamo, samo treba da se sjetimo.
Zabljak 1992POZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#18
Pa pocecemo da promovisemo okultiste i satanizam na vutra org. nemojte mnogo je.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#19
Ne dziba, hahahahaha ovo je TO NO ono ata san i o ekiva in san vidija ata si stavija. Zato san odlu ija zapaprit sa Hrvatskom verzijom. Svaki put isto. Neka. Pripali se bidni. Strah ih je. Predrasude. I poseban osje aj mr~nje, pobjede koji se javlja kad se radi otpor prema ne emu ewga se bojia jer ti je to tako neko reka. Niata ja nisan pro ita u njegovin knjigama. Zaklju ke donosin sam. Nije tu samo Crowlej. Ima tu autora koji su joa "~ea i" od njega. Postoje 2 vrste: "stru ne" knjige i razni romani itd. Osobno, ni Aleister nije nimalo napet ka pisac, ali zato ka stru njak za "Putovanja na mentalnim talasima" je jaka, jaka faca. ovik je pokuaa svitu ponudit rijeaenje ovog sranja koje vlada na naaoj lipaoj planeti kroz samo 3 magi ko/filozofska zakona: 1. ini kako ti je Volja i to nek ti je sav Zakon. 2. Ljubav je Zakon, Ljubav po Volji. 3. Nema zakona nad " ini kako ti je Volja". I normalno odma su se debilni crkvenjaci, politi ari, industrijalci...svi su se natakarili nebili uniatili tu "slobodarsku" filozofiju. A evo i danas su osjetni rezultati tih "proganjanja". Crowlej mo~e smetat jedino ljudima koji u sebi nemaju ni mrvicu tolerancije, koja je 1. i osnovna za bilo kakve meuodnose. Nikome se u to doba nije svidilo toliko odskakanje od "slu~bene religije". Zato su ga i nastojali uniatit. A nije niata straano napravija. Tra~ija da se po ne uva~avat u ono vrime, sve ono ata mi danas smatramno "zdravo za gotovo". }elija je slobodnu ljubav, a ne zabrane. }elija da pravo na rad, ~ivot i samospoznaju za svako ljudsko bie na ovoj planeti. Crowlej, npr. u svojin knjigama navodi stvari koje se paralelno mogu na u npr. Castanedi. Bez Crowleya, nebi bilo New Agea. ON ga je pokrenija. Proputova je cili svit, isproba sve mogu e i nemogu e rituale cilog svita, vje no u potrazi za na inom da se primjeni taj Zakon Theleme (Zakon slobodne Volje) na cili pvaj augavi svit. Ali, kako primjenit zakon slobode; kako airit mir, toleranciju i bratstvo, na svin tranama trokuta kad e ti se uvik pojavit trokut neobrazovanih, neinformiranih, pripadnutih i isprana mozga koji e (u duhu kako su i odgojeni i odrasli) bez vlastite prosudbe automatski reagirat "isprogramirano". A nemaju blage, blage, blage veze o emu pri aju. I zato u sad prevest onu latinsku poslovicu; Diamantes ante porkos! Prevod glasi: "Ne bacaj biserje pred svinje!" I bogami, jeste tako.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#20
Ma dobro, kakav sotonizam? Zna i David Bowie je sotonista? Mick Jager isto tako, skupa sa cilin bendon? Ma ko van je toliko opra mozak? Crkva? I dalje mi nije jasno kako iko sebi mo~e uzetr pravo sudit o ne emu a da nema pojma. Pa bar pro itaj pa sudi, ili se nemoj ni miaat. Jer nemaa pojma. Bo~e sa uvaj, stanje u svijesti je (iz ovog, ne baa reprezebntativnog primjera) izgleda jako, jako nisko.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#21
Da, na~alost. Samo ti La vey sotonisti su takva ki arija da je to za izrigat. Cili in se sustav svodi na naopaku bibliju i uporabu Enohijanskih radova za neke njihove debilne svrhe slavljenja Sotone ka antiteze Bogu. Ma glupost i gadarija. U Crowleyevom sistemu nema mista za nekekvog tamo "sotonu". Kaki sotona i kome taj joa triba u ~ivotu? Ali to je dobar sistem razraen za sjebat ga. U ono doba proglasia ovika sotoniston, vragoljupcen i rijeaija si stvar isto ka i kad danas nekoga proglasia pederon samo zato jer je reka da bi trebalo dat ista prava homoseksualcima ka i ostalima. Sotonizam, religija za budale i jaki instrument kontrole nad svekolikim pu anstvom. Bar onim na koje Crkva (i jedna i druga) ima utjecaja. Mashala, evo neko ko koristi mozak. Napokon. I POTPISUJEN ovo gori re eno. Samo bio doda da nam, ljudima, itanje takvih knjiga i zapisa (ali svih, sa svih strana jer u suprotnome to vodi u jednoumlje) mo~e olakaat naa put nazad. Put kui, prema zijezdama...:hippy:
Kurblaj KanAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#22
Hm nisam ja nikad taj sotonizam shvaao na taj nai shvaao sam ga primarno kao ateisti ku filozofiju u kojoj ovjek slavi sebe i radi ono ato e njemu ugoditi dok je bok i ako postoji nepotreban. A sotonizam je kak sam itao LaVey nazvao svoju religiju jer smatra da je kraanski sotona zapravo simbol koji predstavlja sve dobro i prirodno. Po mom mialjenju trebo je dati nekakvo drugo ime religiji svojoj jer ovako samo zbunjuje ljude Obrede im nisam prou avao jer me nisu interesirali.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#23
MA to je samo lova, lova i lova... I ki eraj. Lije enje kompleksa nabivenih kra anskim odgojem + glad za popularnoau, novcem i raskoaem... Skoro pa da izgleda slu~bena religija zapadnog svijeta. Bljak!!! A rituali su in iskopirani i hibridizirani (naravno, bez razumjevanja) jer se od "vijernika" ne tra~i da razmialjaju, ve kao i u originalu da isklju e mozak i nepitaju suviana pitanja. Isto sranje, drugo pakovanje. Ma gadarija. Samo joa jedan oblik kontrole; za odreen profil ljudi.
Kurblaj KanAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#24
A ima manjkavosti koje ima i svaka religija ali ima se i od njih za svaata dobrog pokupit, ali istina kada bi se posvetio tome i slijedio to u potpunosti bilo bi isto ko da am zadrti rimokatolik ili bilo ata drugo. Tak da valja samo sisat sa svih strana dobre djelie i onda to oblikovati u svojoj glavi. Sad me stvarno zainteresiraae za Crowleya ima da ga prou im
VutragenjoZMAJ

jun 2008.

#25
Nisam imao vremena da citam ali slazem se sa ove tri stavke. Mada ponekad u ovom materijalnom svijetu ne mozemo da radimo sto nam je volja. Istina je da mi mozemo biti sto god ocemo samo treba imati svijest i svijetlost dovoljno jaku da postanemo bogovi sopstvenog svemira.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#26
@Shaman Shandor Tako je. Neviruj nikome. Tra~i i na i ea. Kucaj i otvori e se. U Crowlejevoj metodi klju na stvar je pojedinac. Svako za se travu pase. Bitno je kod njegovog sistema svatit da sve ono ata je napisano i re eno slu~i samo ka alat za vje~bu i mapa na putu kroz nepoznato. U njegovom sistemu slijepo slijeenje je greaka. Na svakom koraku se istie individualnost i veli a sposobnost ljudske duae da dodirne zijezde. I to se navodi kao apsolutno pravo i du~nost svake individue. Da u skladu sa Zakonom slobode doprinese izgradnji lijepaeg, boljeg, poaptenijeg itd "druatva" u kojem ~ivimo. Da poravimo malo ovaj denzitet. Njegova ini kako ti je Volja, nezna i ini ata te volja ili ini ata ti se svia. Ne,ne,ne...to je apoteza slobode jer zna i ini samo ono za ata si predodreen, i niata drugo. A to svako mo~e isklju ivo sam za sebe spoznat. Naae Volje su ko putanje zvijezda. Sve se one radosno kre u u svojoj nebeskoj zajednici. Ne sudaraju se, ne svaaju...Jer sve znaju i vrae svoju Volju. I kad bi primjenili ovu filozofiju zvijezda na ovje anstvo, nebi se viae toliko "sudarali". Normalno, i meteori su "zvijezde"...zaato je njihova Volja ponekad zalipit i neku planetu itd...pitaj Boga. Ako iskreno zapitaa, odgovorie...
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#27
HbS, nema sta da se doda, lepo si to razjasnio... A to je i svrha svega ovoga. Da se da ideja, koja ce voditi ka nekoj slobodi... Da se polako vratimo kuci... Za one koji su spremni, naravno... Loobi, svi smo mi puni "misljenja" nema veze koji je put u pitanju, samo dok ima destinaciju... Kada se vec nalazimo u ovoj situaciji znaci da smo daleko zalutali... I onda kada se treba vratiti "kuci" sve je "dozvoljeno" i ja se zalazem za sve sto moze pomoci, pa makar i to bilo nesto "pocetnicki" ili komercijalno ili sta god... Tesko ce neko postati ****r od citanja knjiga vec od puno iskrenosti prema samom sebi! Ali knjige, internet, dokumentarci, ljudi... komunikacija, sve to zacini "put" i daje inerciju ka zeljenoj destinaciji... Peace svima, ljudi razumevanje i iskrenost... Dosta smo se macevali "u vrtlozima nasih ega". ................................ He, he, he... Ja sam napisao M U D A R, a ono mi izbaci zvezdice... Eto i m u d a r je zabranjeno biti...
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#28
Jbga prika, sorry. Nisan te mislija uvridit, Boga mi. Samo si reagira na na in na koji san navika da ljudi reagiraju. Zajeban je autor, te~ak. I teako je razabirat njegove spike. Ali ovik nije tija bit guru. Jednom je napisa, kad su ga pitali o tome njegovom guruizmu i ata misli o tome...kad umre, ata misli o stvaranju kulta onk njegove li nosti, da tu treba primjenit pravilo koje je joa Buda postavija, a to je: "Ako negdi na svojin putevima sretnea Budu; ubij ga! " Ogradija se ovik. Njegov je cilj u ~ivotu bija prenit zakon Theleme, ata viae putovat i isprovat svaki mogu i na in shamanizma/sorserizma/magike itd na svitu i sve to lipo dokumentirat i uklopit u "zapadnu tradiciju" (koja i ovako i onako dijeli dobar komad sa "isto nom" tradicijom). U ono vrime je javno i glasno usta za prava svih onih koji su bili sjebavani zbog npr. slobode ljubavi; jebote, u ono doba je bilo zabranjeno poljubit se na ulici. Nama je to mo~da sad niata, al danas bi to moga svrstat u rang borbe za legalizaciju vutre. Smiano i neralno zvu i, ali to je bija nemoral na javnom mjestu...pravac tamnica :icon_wink: A volija je i orgijat (i to mu nije bilo mrsko ni "prominit tim"), partijat... I to je radija javno...prozivaju i licemjere svog doba; javno. Rzjeba je Golden Dawn, zadnje "duhovno" uporiate ondaanje masonerije. Jednostavno je objavija sve tajne tog reda, sa obrazlo~enjem da je sustav masonerije okoata u proalom vremenu. Da sva simbolika i znanje koje se prenosi nema funkciju koja im je namjenjena. Da se ne koriste za evoluciju ljudske vrste ve za kontrolu, a da su sve "tajne" duhovno vlasniatvo ovje anstva. Zamisli koliko su ga volile i crkvene i svjetovne vlasti. Nije ima dlake na jeziku. Njegova je "misija" bila uspostavit zakon Theleme. A u tom zakonu nema mista za licemjerje, svako ima pravo na svoju duhovnu slobodu, dokle ne ugro~ava drugoga; a ata bi crkve i razne institucije onda? umrle od gladi? Mislim, od gladi za mo i i kontrolom, jer ata se "blaga" materjalnoga tie; tu su svi dobro pokovani. Sukob postoji samo kao nesporazum dviju Volja. Ako 2 subjekta znaju svoju Volju, i izvraavaju je, oni nikad nee doi u sukob. Nepostoje 2 iste volje. Sukob nastaje kad jedna ili viae subjekata nema blage ata mu je volja; ili mu neko ispere mozak, pa onda misli da je njegova volja ono ata mu je re eno da je njegova Volja. I eto ti rata, bombi, ludila itd. Kad bi se ljudi trudili sku~it "svoju Volju", a ne puatat da budu izmanipulirani raznoraznim medijskim manipulacijama, a ko bi onda "slu~ija"? Kako bi oni koji su "na vrhu moi" mogli guatat u svojin perverznim igranjima "Boga"? Eeee, nemore to!!! To triba odmah zaguait. Izvrni istinu! La~ se uvik (nevjerovatno!!!) bolje ukorijeni nego istina. Pogle samo vutru, i mitologiju oko nje... Opasn lik je bija za svoje vrime. Svestran, a fokusiran samo na jedno. I stvarno je utica na masu "mislioca" iza sebe. Evo, http://users.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Ludlow/Texts/Rats/index.html, ima jedan njegov uradak i joa poneki, ko "pri e iz davnina". O naaoj dragoj svakodnevnoj "euharistiji":banana_rasta:
CasperENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#29
upravo zato sam odustao od crkve... dok sam jos bio u enik i imao vjeronauk u osnovnoj skoli vjerou itelj/sveenik nam je govorio da moramo vjerovati u boga jer on je sve bla bla... a kad bi ga neko pitao sta je to bog, kako izgleda, sta je on ucinio za nas, zasto nas okruzuju ratovi, sukobi i patnja ako postoji bog, zasto ih bog ne zaustavi i ne stvori potpuni mir na zemlji? odgovor je uvijek bio tipa pa to tako treba bit, nemojte se previse zamarat s tim, to je tako, ljudi su krivi za sve.... tada sam shvatio da moram otvorit o i i pogledat sta se dogaa oko mene.
Kurblaj KanAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#30
Ma po mome mialjenju apsolutno svaka dogma je loaa jer ograni ava kriti ko razmialjanje i zahtijeva posluanost unato svemu tako da totalno anti dogma ovjek sam Mislim da sam sad u off skroz oao al ataea
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#31
evo linka za zanimljiv torrent... Ima dosta toga od Crowleya, na engleskom... http://www.btmon.com/Video/Unsorted/Magical_Library.torrent
Vuk_samotnjaKAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#32
ovje e, kontroliraj se! Ako si ve moderator, budi uzoran primjer drugima ato se ponaaanja ti e i ne vrijeaj ono ato ne poznajea. Baa kao ato si i sam napisao... :icon_confused:
kanehbosemAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#33
mislim da je hasan karikirao lokalni govor nekih ljudi koji su super vjernici ali im je govor takav. meni te psovke takoer paraju uai a ata ea... ato se ti e crowleya hasan i d~iba ga kao ku~e, a mi ostali joa nismo upoznati s njegovom naukom... no, evo i ovdje isti primjer kao ato sam viao i dalje kad je rije o njemu : kontraverze. ajd pojasnite one pri e o crowleyu koje se ti u ~rtvi i to. meni su njegova pisanja o.k. (ono malo ato sam mogo pro itat) ali mi nije baa jasno ta pri a sa ~rtvama. neki vele da je to izmialjeno, neki vele da nije...bla bla.. ato se ti e magije mnogo zahvalnije je koristiti rije gnoza tj Znanje (znanje o tome kako majstorirati - da ne ka~em slobodno zidati - vlastiti ~ivot:), jer uporabno zna enje za ovu raspravu, a primjetiete i u svakodnevnom govoru, za oba dvije rije i se u kona nici svodi na isto: promjena u svijesti. ali kad upotrebia rije magija svima se digne kosa na glavi. ali gnoza / znanje poti e znati~ellju, bar bi trebala tako djelovati. zapravo otvara vrata onome ko ima uho, a zatvara onome ko ne uje. a osim toga, i poatenije je prema karmi.kako tuoj tako i prema svojoj vlastitoj.
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#34
Naravno da je u pitanju znanje ali ono bi trebalo da vodi do spoznaje. Bez spoznaje znanje je beskorisno... Ostaje na igri sa sopstvenim egom. Znanje + Iskustvo! Bez iskustva znanje je pucanj u prazno! Znanje koje nije verifikovano iskustvom ce bez sumnje izbledeti. "Ja" nisam nista drugo do sopstvene memorije o sebi. Znanjem se kroji memorija, odnosno mreza u koju treba projektovati SVEST da bi se dobilo iskustvo. Recimo kada se covek nalazi u stanju nesvesti, bilo pijanstvom, drogom, da je u komi, dubokom snu& sve sto se dozivi u tim stanjima ostaje van memorije, van pamcenja posto nepostoji mapa o koju ce se reflektovati to iskustvo. Svest je prisutna nonstop ali da bi mi bili svesni iskustva potrebno je da ono ostane u pamcenju! Moje bice vec zna istinu I ono zivi istinu, svako od nas zna istinu Ali da bi moje individualno ja moje ljudsko ja postalo svesno mog istinskog bica potrebno je iskustvo koje ce uz pomoc znanja ostati urezano u pamcenje. Sto se tice Crowleya, znanje koje on predstavlja meni je izvan svakog moguceg poimanja o zrtvovanjima I kojekakvim magijama I sta sve ne. Covek govori o iskustvu I kako doci do iskustva. Moramo uzeti u obzir vremenski period I okolnosti u kojima su nastale te njegove price. Kada se pogleda sustina on je bio Krajnje pozitivna licnost koja je okrenuta spoznaji sebe I bio je dovoljno dobar da to podeli sa nama!
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#35
zamolio bih nekoga ko je u mogucnosti da prepravi naslov u Aleister Crowley, posto sam ja pogresio, a sada mi para oci... i moze da obrise ovaj post...
vrtlarENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#36
istina JE! da je alister krauli posjedovao znanje i to je neosporno... ali je bio i jebena sotonjara...
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#37
ako "biti sotonjara" znaci protiviti se zakonima crkve onda sam i ja sotonjara. Jer zato su i njega proglasili "sotonjarom". Nije bilo lepo otvarati ljudima oci, pogotovo kada je trebalo skupiti jos puno zlata i porobiti ostatak sveta koji nije bio pod kontrolom...
Kurblaj KanAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#38
Sotonjara je jer je bio slobodan i jer si je dopuatao u~ivanje u emu god po~eli, sotonjara jer je propovijedao slobodu Iz ovoga zaklju ujem da bi svi trebali atovati avla
kanehbosemAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#39
eh taj sotona,po meni je to izmialjena li nost. niko ne mo~e kvalitetno da odgovori tko je taj lik. svi daju neke odgovore za koje treba puno vjere. po meni, sotonu su stvorile religije tako ato su izvadili iz ovjeka jedan oblik volje koji percipiramo kao zao, i peronalizirali taj oblik te okrunili imenom sotona (gr zavodnik tj. la~ac) i na taj na in je kriv netko tko zapravo ne postoji. te je tako skrenuta pa~nja sa glavnog krivca. ato se ti e znanja i magije. znanje sam stavio veilkim slovom, a to podrazumijeva spoznaju. poznatije pod gr kim imenom Gnosis. samo takvo znanje je iskustveno znanje i kao takvo dovodi do promjene u svijesti, ato je zapravo i cilj magijskih rituala...
Kurblaj KanAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#40
Naravno da je Sotona izmialjena li nost bilo bi djetinjasto vjerovati a tek atovati bie sotone on slu~i kao simbol a i toliko se uvukao u sve
kanehbosemAMBASADOR

jun 2008.

#41
najvjerojatnije je mislio da je radio rituale sa ~rtvama, u kojima se puata krv, pa prema tome sotonjara. to sam i ja uo.
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#42
Kaneh, druze, ja sad nevidim u cemu je nesporazum. Dali tebi nije jasno nesto u vezi autora ili zelis da testiras nase znanje u vezi njega? Svako treba da stvori sopstveno misljenje tako sto ce uzeti I procitati, razmisliti, primeniti& Eto ja sam stavio deo teksta da ljudi vide o cemu je rec I nisam hteo da dajem svoj sud da neuticem na druge, ali onda se pojavilo par njih koji su dali sud na pogresan nacin. I to bi bilo uredu da nema drugih koji ce citati I koji ce mozda steci pogresan utisak zahvaljujuci tim predrasudama, a to jesu predrasude jer je ocito da nisu citali I da nemaju razumevanja. Posle sam napisao da covek govori o nacinima za sticanje iskustva, a pokusao sam da objasnim kako to iskustvo nije znanje na nacin koji to ljudi obicno shvataju vec dozivljaj jedne sire percepcije nase realnosti. Ako I ovo zvuci zbunjujuce pojednostavicu& Nacin za projektovanje svesti u eternu, astralnu, mentalnu realnost. On je iz svog iskustva dao sud o dozivljenoj realnosti tih nivoa svesti. El sad treba da dajem ja svoj sud o njegovom sudu? Ne, neka onaj koga zanima sam prouci, a onaj koga nezanima preskoci I zdravo! Njegova dela imaju veliku vrednost, a to dali je bilo nekih zrtvovanja je toliko sporedno I beznacajno u poredjenju sa tim o cemu je sam covek svedocio da stvarno nije za neku ozbiljniju diskusiju& Da je imao bolesan smisao za humor, to da. Tako je provocirao one koje nisu razumeli njegov rad. Pisao je o "zrtvovanju" ali ne u bukvalnom smislu... Ja sam postovao njega kao jedan od mnogih puteva za sirenje znanja... Ni meni se, licno, nesvidjaju svi ti "obredi" odnosno procesi vezani za "magiju" ali ima tu kada se cita izmedju redova bitnijih stvari koje se mogu izvuci... Ja se nebavim tim stvarima i taj deo me nezanima...
pecko88ENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#43
Znaci ovako.. Prvo sotjim iza toga sto sam postao prvi put, da stojim iza svoga potpisa... Poceo sam ga citati ovih dana za da bi mogao da vidim o cemu je rjec. Plus i ova diskusija me vodi da zakljucim jedno. A to je, da je covek bio sa naprednim shvacanjima, ali njegove knjige sprema mene su pune gluposti, barem 99%.. E sada, da se je drukcije izrazio, mozda bi prica bila druga.. Pozdrav...:thumb:
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#44
Ko je bio Aleister Crowley? Edward Alexander Crowley rodjen je 12. oktobra 1875. god., u Engleskoj. Skolovao se na Trinity Koledzu, Cambridge, gde je promenio ime u Aleister. Bio je izuzetno obrazovana osoba i tokom zivota bavio se mnogim stvarima. Bio je deo evropskih umetnickih i avangardnih krugova; primera radi, Somerset Maugham je, isnpirisan njime, napisao svoj roman The Magician. Osim toga, bio je uspesan alpinista, igrac saha, graficki dizajner, osvajac zenskih srca, boem, jogi, uspesan autor brojnih proznih i poetskih dela (uvrsten je i u antologiju The Oxford Book of English Mystical Verse), aktivista u borbi za ljudska prava, boem i mag. Moralisti ga i danas optuzuju za satanizam i “sveopsti moralni nihilizam”; medjutim, Aleister Crowley je samo bio “umetnicki” produkt svoga vremena i, u neku ruku, predstavlja sasvim lep primer pozne viktorijanske dekadencije. Crowley je cesto napadan i zbog koriscenja droge ali pri tome “dusebriznici” zaboravljaju da napomenu jednostavnu cinjenicu, a to je da je njemu droga bila prepisana kao sastavni deo medicinske terapije. Naime, droga je pocetkom proslog veka bila cest i legitiman deo medicinske prakse i nije bila kriminalizovana niti oznacena kao stetna, tako da mu je lekar propisao takvu terapiju zbog problema sa disajnim putevima. Da je ziveo nekoliko desetina godina kasnije Crowley bi, verovatno, postao pop zvezda (uostalom, The Beatles su ga na omotu Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band i stavili medju najslavnije licnosti proslog veka). Ipak, iako je bio svestran umetnik, danas je on poznat uglavnom po tome sto je bio mag i mistik. Svoje prvo spontano misticno iskustvo dozivljava 1896. god., prilikom posete Stokholmu. Dve godine kasnije cita knjige o alhemiji i magiji, nakon cega srece ljude iz Zlatne Zore u koju biva Iniciran. Upoznaje Allana Benneta i Mathersa, te postaje njihov ucenik. Nedugo posle toga nastaje rascep u Zlatnoj Zori i Crowley od strane Mathersa u Parizu biva Iniciran u Adepta. Te iste godine odlazi u Meksiko gde postaje Mason 33°. U Meksiku izvodi i svoje enohijanske eksperimente. Sledece godine, 1902., odlazi na Cejlon gde ga Allan Bennet uci jogu. Postaje budisticki kaludjer i postize znacajne duhovne rezultate. Putuje po Aziji nakon cega se vraca u Evropu gde postaje deo tamosnjih umetnickih i avangardnih krugova (npr. u Rimu saradjuje sa August Rodinom). Gerald Kelly, koji je kasnije postao Predsednik Kraljevske Akademije, upoznaje ga sa svojom sestrom Rose i to poznanstvo se, posle rekordno kratkog vremena, pretvorilo u brak. Tokom njihovog boravka na Cejlonu Rose je zatrudnela. Na povratku u Englesku zaustavili su se u Kairu. Tokom njihovog boravka u Kairu, Crowley je posredstvom Rose primio misticni spis koji je danas poznat kao Liber Al vel Legis (Knjiga Zakona) i koji je osnov Theleme kao metafizickog sistema. Tokom sledecih godina Crowley je primio jos neke Svete Spise i reformisao Zlatnu Zoru u Astrum Argentum. U Sahari, 1909. god., prelazi Bezdan i postize stepen Majstora Hrama. Sledece godine srece Leilu Waddell i zajedno u Engleskoj javno izvode Eleuzijske rituale. Nekoliko godina kasnije Theodor Reuss posecuje Crowleya, Inicira ga u Ordo Templi Orientis i postavlja ga za britanskog vodju Reda. Tokom svog boravka u Moskvi Crowley, inspirisan ruskom liturgijom, pise Gnosticku Misu koja je danas centralni, javni i privatni, ritual Ordo Templi Orientisa. Nedugo nakon prvog svetskog rata Crowley na Siciliji osniva Opatiju Theleme odakle ga Mussolini proteruje 1923. U narednim godinama evropska stampa ga besomucno napada kao “najgoreg coveka na svetu”, no to ga nije omelo da u tom periodu napise neke od svojih najvaznijih knjiga. Crowley je do kraja svog zivota ostao Internacionalni Vodja Ordo Templi Orientisa. Umro je prirodnom i mirnom smrcu u Engleskoj 1. decembra 1947. http://www.geocities.com/sanctum_sanctorum_oto/crowley.html
pecko88ENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#45
dziba...ti ko da si se zaljubio u crowleya... Slaim se samo...LOL Znaci mislim da bi bilo bolje da diskusiju okrenemo u pravcu o tome sto je on napisao u svojim knjigama. Kao na primer ovo: 15) Every force in the Universe is capable of being transformed into any other kind of force by using suitable means. There is thus an inexhaustible supply of any particular kind of force that we may need. On ovde govori o "force" koje u prevodu oznacava "moc".. A u stvari pravilna definicija ovog njegovog tvrdenja je: Svaka "energija" u univerzumu se moze pretvoriti u bilo koji drugi vid "energije".... Mislim da on koristi razne sinonime kako bi podrzao svoje definicije i "nasocio" misljenje citatelja ka onome koje on zeli..
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#46
Drago mi je da si se okrenuo ka konstruktivnoj strani... Moras priznati da ono prvo nije bilo na mestu... Radi se o sledecem (ovo je moje misljenje): On govori o Eternom svetu i vezi sa fizickim svetom. Da bi pravilno razumeo "force" moras sagledati to iz pravilne percepcije... Sile koje suptilno "vladaju" fizickim svetom mogu se iskusiti u punoj snazi u etrenom, odnosno astralnom svetu. Da bi to ucinio moras ovladati nekom od tehnika dostizanja istog. Npr. meditacijom i "spustanja" u trans ili Out of body metodom, kroz san, ili pak nekim ritualom (sto je ozloglaseno i mnogo zbrke nastaje oko toga, meni se licno nesvidja ta metoda). Iz ove "nase ljudske" perspektive to stvarno nema smisla tumaciti i jasno je zasto ostaje neshvaceno... Vidi temu Out Of Body za vise detalja...
pecko88ENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#47
Sve u redu... Citao sam dosta o out of body expirience, isto tako sam procitao i tvoj zadnji postani tekst koji podrzavam i mislim da je veoma dobar. Ali rjiec je u tome sta crowley je te "moci" a ne sile (F u fizici) koe sto on naziva "force" aplicirao u realnom svetu na nacin na koji njemu odgovara da bi podrzao svoje teorije. Note. Napisao sam F za sile iz fizike, jer tako smo obelezavali ovde u MKD, kod vas moze da je drukcije.. Pozdrav...:)
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#48
Sada cu morati malo da se posluzim Franz Bardonom: Theory The Elements: The philosophy of Elements is, obviously, a human construct. It is one way in which we humans have attempted to describe the workings of the universe. But even though it is a human construct this does not negate the fact that it describes a real thing. To my mind, it is a description that works well. It gives me a tool by which I can work with the actual forces that it tries to describe. Granted, it is imperfect and does not exactly match the reality of things, but then again, an exact match would be impossible. The forces that underlie the Elements do exist regardless of whether or not we try to describe them and regardless of whether or not humans are around to perceive them. There are two very important things to keep in mind when working with the Elements. First is that the Elements are not the same as the physical phenomena whose names they share. For example, the Element Fire is not the same as the physical phenomena of fire. The names of the Elements are derived through the "law" of analogy. This means that the Element Fire possesses many of the characteristics of physical fire, such as expansiveness, heat, brightness, and the ability to transform what it touches. All to often the student falls into the trap of drawing too close a relationship between the Elements and their analogous physical phenomena. This tends to obscure the deeper significance of the Elements and should, therefore, be avoided. Second in importance regarding the Elements is the fact that in our physical realm, the Elements never act alone. All physical things are a combination of the Elements. For example, the physical phenomena of fire is not composed solely of the Fire Element. Instead, physical fire is composed of all four Elements working together (plus the fifth -- Akasha). A physical thing may show a predominance of one Element over the others, but it still contains all four. The Elements exist in their pristine, separate sense only in the most rarified reaches of the astral and mental planes. The Electric and the Magnetic Fluids: Bardon does not write extensively about the Electric and Magnetic Fluids in the Theory section of IIH. He does, however, speak of it in the ten Steps and in his other books, especially KTQ and Q&A. But in no one spot does he clearly and exhaustively define these terms. Probably the first question that arises is what does he mean by "Fluid"? By Fluid, Bardon indicates an energy or essence that manifests mo31 tion and handles in a manner similar to water. Both Fluids are dynamic things. IIH teaches the student how to manipulate or wield these Fluids, form them into whatever shape is desired and impregnate them with any corresponding wish. These two Fluids are the primal polarity and are effective in every plane of existence. The Electric Fluid is the positive, expansive pole and the Magnetic Fluid is the opposite negative, contractive pole. As with a physical magnet, these poles cannot be separated -- they are manifest through the continuum that unites them in their eternal embrace. Both forces are equal and interdependent, and have been described in every culture in one way or another. At the highest level, these poles are expressed through the two faces of The One. The Fluids are the root of the Elements Fire and Water. This is why, in the course of IIH, the student looks within the Fire Element for the Electric Fluid and within the Water Element for the Magnetic Fluid. It is in fact, difficult for the student to at first differentiate between the primary Elements and the Fluids. But there is a difference -- it's just difficult to explain. Within the Fire Element, the Electric Fluid is found in the Fire's expansiveness, heat and light. The Magnetic Fluid is found within the Water's contractiveness, cold and darkness. The Magnetic Fluid gives form to the Electric force and everywhere in our world, they act in unison. The Fluids are the two primal forces and the Elements are their extensions or modifications. Each of the Elements can be said to have a specific ElectroMagnetic charge. The Fire Element is predominantly Electric and the Water, Magnetic. The Air represents a balance of the two Fluids (the continuum which connects these two poles) -- the perfect hermaphrodite, capable of accepting the influence of either Fluid. The fourth pole of the quadrapolar magnet, Elemental Earth, represents the combined action of these three ElectroMagnetic charges. This is often difficult for the novice to understand. It requires careful consideration to see how, at a philosophical level, the combination of parts can sometimes equal more than the sum of its parts. In this case, the amplification of effect occurs because the parts which combine are each dynamic things. Their dynamism makes them interactive and together, they make something new which does not exist at the level of their independent parts. Thus the Elemental Earth contains not only the Electric and Magnetic balance of Air, but also the raw polarities of Fire and Water. Together, they work in a dynamic, rhythmic and cyclic manner. It is the combination and interaction of these three dynamic parts that causes things to manifest solidity in each of the three mediums or substances (Mental, Astral and Physical). The serious work with the Fluids doesn't begin until the eighth Step of IIH, so there is little point in listing too many correspondences for the Flu32 ids here. Between now and Step Eight, you'll have plenty of time to become familiar with the Fluids on your own. In the mean time, here are a few notes from Bardon's own comments as relayed by his direct students in the book "Questions and Answers" -- MENTAL: "The Electric Fluid fills abstract thoughts with pure Electric Fluid, warmth, expansion and dynamics. The Magnetic Fluid fills them with pure Magnetic Fluid and the opposite attributes. For example, the Electric Fluid expresses itself through its attributes in willpower, while the Magnetic Fluid expresses itself in the antipole of the will, that is, in manifested belief, an aspect of the productive universal power." ASTRAL: "Clairvoyance is an Electric ability of the astral body; clairsentience and psychometry are Magnetic abilities." PHYSICAL "If we are under the influence of the Electric Fluid, then the Fire Element is more effective in us. In this case we feel hot, or we are active to higher degrees, we work more diligently, and therefore we are internally satiated with the Fire Element. Through the increased influence of the Magnetic Fluid we perceive coldness; should the Magnetic Fluid become satiated within us, elimination increases." "On the surface of the human body, the ElectroMagnetic Fluid is effective as radiating life-magnetism. The right side of the body is (in the case of a right-handed person) the active or Electrical side, whereas the left side of the body is passive or Magnetic. The opposite is the case with a left-handed person. "The Electric Fluid, through its expansion, causes radiating electrons on the inside of every body , which on the other hand are attracted by the Magnetic Fluid of the earth. The Electric Fluid is located in the Inner of everything created, therefore also in the center of the earth, while the Magnetic Fluid is effective on the surface of the earth an on everything created. . . The Electric Fluid produces the acids in all organic or inorganic bodies or substances from a chemical or alchemical point of view, whereas the Magnetic Fluid is effective in an alkaline manner." Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), the Electric and Magnetic Fluids are not the same thing as the physical phenomena of electricity and magnetism. While they are analogously related, they are not the same. The physical phenomena of electricity and magnetism are each primarily caused by their corresponding Fluid but they are not purely one or the other Fluid -- they are each composed of the four Elements with a corresponding polarized predominance of either Fire or Water. It is impossible for me to describe what it feels like to accumulate and project the Fluids. The only way to gain this insight is through direct experience, the key to which is to take careful note, in your daily life, of the qualities I described above and look for them, especially as you work with the Elements. Celu knjigu "A Bardon Companion" mozete skinuti ovde: http://www.abardoncompanion.com/ABardonCompanionBook.pdf
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#49
Mislim da je redosled malo drugaciji.... mislim da je on svoje teorije zasnovao na iskustvu apliciranja "forces" u realnom svetu. a nevidim kako drugacije i moze biti... Razumem da ti zelis reci da je on negde pogresio ali mislim da je ovaj svet dovoljno sirok da bi bilo mesta i za njegovo objasnjenje...
pecko88ENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#50
dziba, nemoj me razumeti pogresno, ali ovaj drugu post je mnogo bolji od prethodnog, onog veeeeeelikog.. Probao si objasniti svojim recima, an samo copy i paste... To prema meni ne ide tako.. Kako bi se sada ti osecao da bi neko ko ne misli na nacin Crowley-a da bi ti pastao celu danasnju fiziku ?? Jel bi mogao zavrsiti sa citanjem u razumnom vremenu i dao pravi odgovor onome koji je postao ??? Ali kako i da je, sada bas nemam vremena, pa cu onaj veeeeliki tekst procitati malo kasnije, pa cu vidjeti sta si hteo reci. Pozdrav... :P
dzibaENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#51
Taj veliki post ima dole link na kojem se moze naci izvor teksta. Mislim da je bolje da ljudi procitaju iz prve ruke nesto sto ja nebih umeo da objasnim tako dobro... Peace, druze moj, jedni drugima treba da pomazemo i to je ono sto ja radim...
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#52
Tekstova o Magici itd ima i na naaeme(hrvatski i srpski) tako da se netreba tla it engleskin kome slabije ide. OK, ajmo dalje: @Rafazi Pihe Je, kanneh je u pravu; karikira san govor i psovke "vjernika" koje se redovoto uju kad pedivni, Bogom dani vjernivci, izlaze ni manje ni viae, nego sa mista obo~avanja istog. Divota, a? Fucn licemjerje. @Kannehbosem Istina je da je Crowley izjavio da je u svojoj karijeri Magi ara ~rtvovao na tisue, ne, na desetke tisua djece i da e ih nastavit i dalje ~rtvovati. Ovo je izazvalo velike kontroverze, koje su zavraile suenjem. Na suenju je ispala apsolutna komedija. Aleister je idalje tvdio da je ~rtvovai da e dalje ~rtvovati, a njegova obrana je sve dalje izazivala optu~bu da podastre dokaze. Dokaza, naravno nije ni bilo. Ali je istina da ih je ~rtvova na miljone. Svaka spoznaja, svako iskustvo, svaka pobjeda,poraz itd. gledano iz magi kog kuta, jesu dijeca...djeca nastala meuigrom ovjeka koji stremi gore i Boga koji stremi dolje. TAko nastala "dijeca" moraju biti "~rtvovana" i vra ena nazad...u ono "Niata" iz kojeg je emanira njihov arhetip. U suprotnom, ako tu "djecu" zadr~imo zase, onda imamo situaciju tzv. "Crne magije". Malo je komplicirano (i suludo,bome) ali to bi zna ilo non-stop ~ivit u sustavu u kome prkti ki ne ostavljaa nikakav uspjeh, poraz, dobro ili loae samo za sebe. Univerzum e odgovorit na iskrene zahtjeve tra~itelja, ali "rezultati" ne pripadaju tra~itelju osobno. Koliko god da su "tra~itelju" mili i dragi rezultati koji su ga npr. pogurali, popravili karijeru itd, on/ona ih mora "vratit". Raditi bez o ekivanja nagrade. Nadan se da san uspija objasnit. I nebi miaa Gnozu i Magiku. Gnoza je vjerovanje na osnovu Znanja. Zna i da bi se vjerovalo u Boga, treba ga prvo spoznati, osjetiti, do~iviti itd. Magika je jedan od sustava pomou kojeg se mo~e doi do Gnoze. @vrtlar Nije bija sotonjara, bar ne u klasi nom danaanjem sustavu. Sotonisti ka crkva je ustanovljena dosta poslin njegove smrti. A to da se bavija svakakvim ritualima, da je obaaa cili svit (skoro) i prou ija bilo koji oblik lokalnog znanja, jebiga, je. Bavija se i energijama koje bi se mogle okrakterizirati "sotonskima". Iz perspektive u kojoj se joa uva~ava taj masscontrole program Sotona.exe. Osobito oko Kra anskih srediata, a bome i Muslimani svoga `ejtana za trku imaju. Ako se ne promini mialjenje, bi e rata ta atatataa :hotpants: Baphomet, Pan, `iva... sve je to "sotona" ispod 1000 maski. @Pecko & Dziba A normalno da ih je aplicira. Ako neato radi, primjenia. A njegova je "svha" bila uspostavit taj Zakon Theleme. Nevidin zaato nebi ovjek koristio to ata je ovlada odreenim "forces" u cilju svog daljnjeg razvoja na putu prema samoostvarenju? A sta se tice ovog velikog teksta vidin da je Burdon, i poznat mi je tekst. No koment :icon_wink:
putnik

jun 2008.

#53
nije li isus rekao da ako ne postanemo kao djeca da neemo ui u kraljevstvo nebesko. atributi djeteta(istinskog): ponizna srca, skromna, ne svadja se, ui iz svega, ne voli nepravde, samilostan pogled, ne tra~i svoje... kao ato su ljudi prije ~rtvovali(sjetite se kajinove i abelove ~rtve) bogu najbolje od onoga ato su imali, tako je i crowley ~rtvovao najviae ljudske vrline ~ivotu kojeg je "shvaao". joa je rekao isus: kako ~elimo da nam drugi ine, tako neka i mi inimo njima. a ja joa nisam primio odgovora od vas u vezi onih rije i. bez da razumijem te rije i neu shvatiti kako se postaje nagual. a ne ete ni vi.
High Times

jun 2008.

#54
putnice cuje se miris lavande(travande)
vrtlarENTUZIJASTA

jun 2008.

#55
procitao sam magiku i to je moj stav... hvala lijepo, netrebam druge da mi govore sta da mislim.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jun 2008.

#56
A je, je...ai,ai, kome no.... travanda, lavanda, bevanda.... A di si care?:smoke18:
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jul 2008.

#57
Eo, mali uvod u knjigu koja je Aleistera lansirala ka "najopakijeg vjeka na svijetu" :icon_wink: A pisano je 1938... Rijeaenje mogu ih "urota" :icon_confused:
Silent BobPOZNAVALAC

jul 2008.

#58
Evo knjige Psychology of Hashish koju je napisao Crowley, na englishu je. http://rapidshare.com/files/129857232/The_Psychology_of_Hashish.doc.html
Gwydion

jul 2008.

#59
OK, no Crowley se ovde sasvim lepo uklapa, mislim na ovaj sajt, poato je kao primarno pisac i pesnik, pisao itave ode marihuani i haaiau. Lepo ljudi ostavili i linkove da se to skine ... mislim da je ak knjiga sa njegovim tekstovima na tu temu, uz dodatak Bodlerove poeme o haaiau , izaala u Beogradu u izdanje Esotherie.
EXARPPOZNAVALAC

jul 2008.

#60
Ma ini mi se da je neko stavija i link na te knjige negdi...:icon_confused: E da, http://forums.vutra.org/69468-post57.html, dva posta poviae...:read:
PustinjakENTUZIJASTA

nov 2014.

#61
Liber Al Vel Legis ili knjiga zakona osnova theleme O.T.O cini sta ti je volja,ljubav je zakon ljubav pod voljom sve to zvuci lijepo i je medjutim kakva je to predivna manipulacija to je druga prica nekoliko citata iz knjige kojoj se svi crowleyevci klanjaju Liber AL Legis III,12: zrtvuj stoku, malu i veliku: zatim djete III,18 Milosrd|e neka bude odbaceno,prokunite one koji sazaljevaju! Ubijajte i mucite; ne stedite; budite nad njima! III,23: Za miris mjesaj brasno i med i gusti talog crvenog vina: zatim Abramelinovo ulje i maslinovo ulje, a potom razblazi i smiri socnom svezom krvlju. III,24: Najbolja krv je od lune, mesecna: zatim sveza krv deteta, ili koja kaplje iz hostije neba: zatim od neprijatelja; zatim od svestenika ili obozavatelja: konacno od neke zveri, nije vazno koje. III,49: Ja sam u tajnojcetvorostrukoj reci, huljenje protiv svih ljudskih bogova. III,50: Prokunite ih! Prokunite ih! Prokunite ih! Predivna je to manipulacija i drzanje pod palicom ljudi koji imaju malo drugacije poglede o zivotu,te krecu u potragu napustajuci postojecu paradigmu egzistencije,za njih se servira drugacija prica nesta sto bi zadovoljilo njihove mentalne sklopove te ih se pretvara u poslusno roblje,koje malo izravnije sluzi,za razliku od svjetine.
metalmaniacZMAJ

nov 2014.

#62
to je sve ispiranje mozga za lakovjerne idiote, isto kao i bilo koja religija, sekta ili pokret sa "duhovnim voom" na elu (Vucoisti ne spadaju tu :P). ja ne volim ni uti za to, a kamo li tek vidjeti na ovom forumu... sve ato ovjek treba znati o ~ivotu mo~e sam nau iti, ne treba mu nikakva knjiga da mu poka~e "pravi" put...
Sativa DivaZMAJ

nov 2014.

#63
"sve ato ovjek treba znati o ~ivotu mo~e sam nau iti, ne treba mu nikakva knjiga da mu poka~e "pravi put..." veinu toga ovjek sam spozna, to stoji, ali nije da mu ne treba nikakva knjiga.. :) svi smo po eli prvo sa slikovnicama, bajkama, pa akolskim knjigama, lektirama i tako dalje, zar ne? da bi neato nau ili.. mislim da ovjeku ne treba mu NIKAKAV ODREENI PISAC ili bilo koji drugi ovjek, da mu poka~e pravi put.. samo bih to ispravila. ina e se sla~em sa svime.. crowley je zanimljiv, ovako na prvu .. ali ipak.. pri a za sebe.
Z&NZMAJ

nov 2014.

#64
Mogo bih pro itati poneato od ovog Crowleya. Djeluje mi kao teaki divljak. Moj ovek :D
1310ZMAJ

jul 2015.

#65
zanimljivo kako zlo nemoze biti inicirajuce..ono je uvjek u zaledu dobra. zlo nezna nista kreirati .ono uvjek imitira nesto dobro, ljudsko,humono i iz toga radi nered. Velicati tu odvratnost zaista postavlja pitanje ljudskosti. no dokone dame i kvazi pleyboy idiomi u svom neproduktivnom malom postojanju zele ostaviti trag
H2O888LEGENDA

jul 2015.

#66
svo znanje se nalazi u covjeku,svaki covjek je svemir,svak ko je zagreba ispod povrsine sebe zaplovi je u novo prostranstvo koje nema kraja,prostranstvo znanja i spoznaje,pogledajmo se iznutra stvarajmo iznutra,jer ne postoji nista izvan ljutskog bica a da vec nije zapisano u njemu,covjek je sve sto postoji i sto ce postojat,trazimo odgovore u sebi a ne van sebe.

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