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L0oD

Hocus pocus,try to focus but I can't see...
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Nznm kako da ti docaram :razvaljen:: out moze sve,al ti treba malo vise spotova... ili jedan spot a poseta svako dnevna... sto se tice plodnje... a sto se tice otpornosti... trebao bi imati vise biljki,kroz 3-4 generacije bi imao vise gubitaka,a kako bi odmicala generacije,biljka bi bila sve vise i vise otpornija na uslove gde se uzgaja... sad dal bi ti trebalo 5-6-7 generacija za to,sve ovisi o genetici biljke... a to jes straina i samog tog bridera koji je radio... jel sam ti sad docarao:razvaljen:::fuck:
 

revolution

Aktivan Član
02.01.2013
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evo citam temu pa da se nadovezem..zanima me jel moguce kad primjetimo da je biljka muska a svidja nam se da odrezemo cjelu biljku i ostavimo pri dnu samo 1 grancicu sa par cvjetova muskih. Jel bi ostale biljke bile pune sjemena ili bi tu i tamo bila koja sjeme?sto kazete na ovo,dali funkcionira?
 

Degustator

Aktivan Član
02.11.2010
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iza dima
U slucaju da tyako uradis,verovatno ces iz ostavljenih prasnika pokupiti polen i time smanjiti mogucnost opsteg oprasivanja. Ne bi trebalo preterano petljati oko muske biljke ni izlagati je direknoj ventilaciji.
 

turpija234

Aktivan Član
07.06.2015
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Ljudi jedno pitanje,od tri biljke dobio sam jednog muzijaka,skratio mu muke,par grancica poneo sa sobom pokusao kloniranje(koje je uspelo). Kapiram da polen sakupim u neku kesicu,ali kako posle da oprasim par vrhova a da ne oprasim i ostale. Kako vi to radite? Sve mi zent neki razletece se polen i ode sve u k.... ovaj semenke :)
Hvala unapred i pozdrav :)
 

turpija234

Aktivan Član
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Hvala puno.. slika govori 1000 reci.
I stapicem mazem po pistilima jel tako?
 

PowerSeed

fuckin' admin
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da, dobro ga uvaljas pa po cvetovima koje zelis oprasiti, il malo iznad cveta pa samo lupnes prstom po stapicu
 
30.08.2015
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Da li neko zna da li moze da se dobije fem automatik?
Imam situaciju da je jedan automat pohermio u drugoj polovini cvetanja,a bio je par metara od njega jos jedan automat koji je na kraju imao menki ne previse ali je bilo.Pa me zanima da li je moguce od ove situacije da ispadne automat, pa ako neko zna pomogao bi mi.pozdrav
 

prosto oko

Ne znam i ne zanima me.
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Jel mi tko moze ovo reci. Nije da mislim sta s tim, nego me zanima
Znam da postoje dva modela nasljedivanja, dominantno-recesivni i intermedijalni.
Prema Inq-ovom tekstu dobio sam dojam da vutra spada u intermedijalni model, tj. da ce biljka ukoliko ima različite alele(ili vec sto) za određenu osobinu biti nesto između. Npr. Naslijedila je od jednog roditelja alel za kratak period cvjetanja, a od drugog dugi. I ona ce biti nesto između.
U dominantno-recesivnom modelu bi to drugačije bilo. Bila bi ili dugocvjetajuca ili kratkocvjetajuca. Ovisi koje svojstvo je dominantno, a koje recesivno.
I napokon pitanje :D
Jel sve osobine, koje bi mogle zanimati nekog tko pokušava nesto kemijati, spadaju u intermedijalni model. Ili ima i ovog drugog
 
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420Florist

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Evo jedan tekst na engleskom koji stvarno većinu stvari objašnjuje @prosto oko , ako smeta, može se slob prebaciti u eng podforum.

MENDEL's work is outstanding, since it constitutes a completely new approach: the concentration on just a single feature. MENDEL set great store by the evaluation of the numerical proportions of the hybrids and he analyzed the plants gained by hybridization independently. He found it also essential to work with as great a number as plants as possible in order to outrule chance. His research enabled him to detect three principles of heredity.

MENDEL's first law is the principle of uniformity. It says that, if two plants that differ in just one trait are crossed, then the resulting hybrids will be uniform in the chosen trait. Depending on the traits is the uniform feature either one of the parents' traits (a dominant-recessive pair of characteristics) or it is intermediate.

MENDEL's second law is the principle of segregation. It states that the individuals of the F2 generation are not uniform, but that the traits segregate. Depending on a dominant-recessive crossing or an intermediate crossing are the resulting ratios 3:1 or 1:2:1. According to this principle hereditary traits are determined by discrete factors (now called genes) that occur in pairs, one of each pair being inherited from each parent. This concept of independent traits explains how a trait can persist from generation to generation without blending with other traits. It explains, too, how the trait can seemingly disappear and then reappear in a later generation. The principle of segregation was consequently of the utmost importance for understanding both genetics and evolution.

MENDEL's third law is also called the principle of independent assortment. It says that every trait is inherited independently of the others and it thus covers the case that new combinations of genes can arise, which were not existing before. We know today that this principle is just valid in the case of genes that are not coupled, i.e. that are not located at the same chromosome.
in 1866 that was to become the foundation of modern genetics. In contrast to his predecessors MENDEL was not interested in the problem of the sexuality of flowering plants and not in the delimitation of species and varieties, his interest was the numerical registration of the transmission of parental properties to the hybrids. He approached it in a completely new way that differed from those used before in three points:

First, he did not hybridize species and varieties that differed in many properties. In contrast, the first big success of MENDEL's method was the isolated examination of a single feature. Second, he attached great importance to the numerical proportions of the hybrids. He wrote:

"It seemed necessary that all members of a developmental line were completely examined in each respective generation in order to recognize the relations, that the different types of hybrids have to each other and to their parental species."

MENDEL found it essential to work with as big a number of individuals as possible, because chance could otherwise exert too great an influence and thus conceal the rules that were visible at appropriately large numbers. Third, he analyzed the plants he gained by hybridization independently. In the same careful manner he did also separate the respective generations of bastards. He wrote about his plants:

"The choice of the plant groups has to occur with outmost care, if not the whole success has to be questioned. It is necessary that the plants have

1. constantly differing traits.

2. Their hybrids have to be protected from the influence of any foreign pollen during flowering or it has to be easy to protect them upon need.

3. The hybrids and their offspring are not to suffer from any impairment of fertility.

He chose Pisum sativum as his specimen and concentrated on the analysis of seven pairs of characteristics. The choice of the object was happy, since the garden pea is generally self-pollinating. Accordingly the varieties he used were true-breeding. MENDEL concluded the following:

If two plants that differ from each other in just one characteristic are crossed, then the resulting hybrids are uniform in the chosen characteristic. This statement is today known as the MENDEL's first law and is also called the principle of uniformity.

Before we advance to further laws, we have to explain several terms. The parental generation is marked with a P. The first daughter generation is named F1 from Latin 'filia', which means 'daughter'. If two hybrids of the F1 generation are crossed, then the resulting generation is called F2, the following generation F3 and so on. One of the two characteristics of a pair may be (as actually all pairs chosen by MENDEL were) dominant. Such a crossing is also called dominant-recessive. All individuals of the F1 generation bear the dominant characteristic. Contrasting are crossings where the resulting characteristic of the F1 generation is an intermediate of the two parental ones. Such a crossing is called intermediate or incompletely dominant.

For both types of crossing it is unimportant, whether the characteristic stems from the male or the female parent. An example shall elucidate this: (female) round seeds x (male) edgy seeds result in F1 individuals with round seeds , since round is dominant. The same result is achieved with the following cross: (female) edgy seeds x (male) round seeds. In a cross is the first mentioned parent always the female one.

If now the hybrids are crossed with each other, then the recessive characteristic occurs again in the F2 generation (see table). MENDEL extrapolated a ratio of 3:1 from his experimental results. He concluded:

"Since the members of the first generation of hybrids (meant is the F2 generation) stem directly from the seeds of the hybrids, it now becomes clear that the hybrids of two different characteristics form seeds, of which one half develops again into the hybrid state, while the other half results in plants, which stay constant in an either dominant or recessive character. Dominant and recessive characteristic do show in equal numbers here."


MENDEL assumed that both pollen and eggs bear hereditary factors, that he thought to be something different than the characteristics themselves. He made thus a further important insight, because not the characteristics themselves are inherited, but their lay-out (now called alleles).

Since it is dependent on chance, which pollen and eggs combine, the pollination will take place according to the rules of probability as shown in the following scheme:

This results in the offspring:
AA Aa aA aa

This regularity is expressed by MENDEL's second law, the principle of segregation. The individuals of the F2 generation are not uniform, instead different types are visible. The characteristics of the parental generation do always occur at a certain ratio. Depending on a dominant-recessive or an intermediate crossing, they segregate in the ratio 3:1 or 1:2:1.



Incomplete dominance in flowers of Mirabilis jalapa AA genotypes have red, Aa genotypes pink and aa genotypes whitish flowers (redrawn from C. CORRENS, 1902)
It cannot be perceived whether the dominant individuals of a dominant-recessive hereditary path will breed pure or whether the traits will segregate again in following generations. A formal reflection will explain this. A hereditary factor like, for example, the shape of the seed, the colour of the cotyledons or the colour of the seed shell shall be called a gene (following a suggestion of BATESON made in 1909). The state, in which a gene exists, i.e. whether the trait 'seed shape' is, for example, round or edgy is called an allele. If we look at the scheme above, we will see that each individual inherits one allele per gene of the mother and one of the father. Both alleles may be equal or they may differ. In the first case the individual would be homozygous, in the latter heterozygous. MENDEL did already mark genes (which he called 'Anlagen' (German), meaning 'hereditary factors') by letters (see above). Here, too, international conventions do nowadays exist that fix the way, in which these letters are written. Nevertheless different terminologies are common in the different disciplines of genetics. Drosophila researchers , for example, use other terms than bacterial researchers.

But let us start with a fundamental rule. A dominant allele is marked with a capital, a recessive one with the respective lowercase letter. So if a plant with red flowers is crossed with a plant with white flowers and red is dominant (white is accordingly recessive), it cannot be operated with the letters r (for red) and w (for white), but the red flowers have to be marked R and the white ones r. Since two alleles exist for each gene in each individual, the homozygous forms RR and rr and the heterozygous Rrexist.

Homozygous individuals (RR) cannot be distinguished from heterozygous ones (Rr) in dominant-recessive hereditary paths. To be able to recognize their true type the hybrids are crossed with the recessive parent (rr). This is called a back-cross. Homozygous individuals (RR x rr) produce only one type of offspring (Rr), while the offspring of heterozygous individuals (Rr x rr) is half Rr and half rr.

Since it cannot easily be distinguished between a homozygous and a heterozygous state (RR or Rr), it is instead differentiated between phenotype (appearance) and genotype (the allele combination). A certain phenotype can thus have several (two in the case of a dominant phenotype in a hereditary path of two alleles per gene) genotypes.

Now, what happens, if several pairs of characteristics are regarded? MENDEL's example was the following: round seeds and yellow cotyledons x edgy seeds and green cotyledons. Both plants were homozygous for the respective characters.

All hybrids of the F1 generation had round seeds and yellow cotyledons, but in the F2 generation a segregation could be observed:

315 plants had round seeds and yellow cotyledons,
101 had edgy seeds and yellow cotyledons,
38 inherited edgy seeds and green cotyledons and
108 plants had round seeds and green cotyledons

This result could be interpreted by the following scheme:


PUNNETT-Square: The scheme shows the genotypes of the P-, F1- and F2-generation of a dihybrid hereditary path. This kind of representation was introduced by the British geneticist R. C. PUNNETT at the beginning of this century
The experiment proved that the characters were inherited independently from one another. The genotypes of the F2 generation occur in a ratio of 9:3:3:1. And this leads us to MENDEL's third law, the principle of independent assortment. It does inevitably cover the case that new combinations of genes, that were not existing before can arise. In MENDEL's experiment these are the combinations: round seeds/green cotyledons and edgy seeds/yellow cotyledons.

If just one character is studied, then it is talked of a monohybrid crossing. If further characteristics are also regarded, then the crossing is called dihybrid, trihybrid,...polyhybrid.

 

prosto oko

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Dobar tekst, tek sad sam ga uspio procitati na miru.
Jasno mi je to, ali cini mi se da ima dosta razlike ukoliko radia sa intermedijalnim ili dominantno recesivnim karakteristikama. I zato sam pitao.
Npr.
U d-r tipu vec u F1 generaciji mozes odrediti koja je osobina dominantna a koja recesivna. U intermedijalnom ne.
Opet, u f2 generaciji u intermedijalnom tipu mozes odrediti koje biljke su za određenu osobinu homozigotne. Ako nisu nesto između onda su ibl za tu osobinu. Ako je velicina u pitanju onda su sve velike(dom) i sve male(rec) ibl.
Kod potpuno dominantno-recesivnog tipa to mozes biti siguran samo za recesivne(male).
 
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420Florist

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Nemate dozvolu da vidite linkove. Prijavite se ili registrujte se.


Kada otvoris sajt, pretisni alt i f zajedno i ukucaj samo inter, da dodjes do parta gdje stoji info, pa bom citaj, nadam se da je to to sto trazis, inace i ovaj post od chimere nije los za procitati:

"you’ve just discovered the biggest myth (IMNSHO) of marijuana breeding- it is a mistake that almost EVERYONE makes (including many of the most respected breeders!).

Backcrossing will not stabilize a strain at all- it is a technique that SHOULD be used to reinforce or stabilize a particular trait, but not all of them.

For e.g.- G13 is a clone, which I would bet my life on is not true breeding for every, or even most traits- this means that it is heterozygous for these traits- it has two alleles (different versions of a gene). No matter how many times you backcross to it, it will always donate either of the two alleles to the offspring. This problem can be compounded by the fact that the original male used in the cross (in this case hashplant) may have donated a third allele to the pool- kinda makes things even more difficult!

So what does backcrossing do?
It creates a population that has a great deal of the same genes as the mother clone. From this population, if enough plants are grown, individuals can be chosen that have all the same traits as the mother, for use in creating offspring that are similar (the same maybe) as the original clone.
Another problem that can arise is this- there are three possibilities for the expression of a monogenic (controlled by one gene pair) trait.

We have dominant, recessive, and co-dominant conditions.

In the dominant condition, genotypically AA or Aa, the plants of these genotypes will look the same (will have the same phenotype, for that trait).

Recessive- aa will have a phenotype

Co-dominant- Aa- these plants will look different from the AA and the aa.

A perfect example of this is the AB blood types in humans:

Type A blood is either AA or AO
Type B blood is either BB or BO
Type AB blood is ONLY AB
Type O blood is OO.

In this case there are three alleles (notated A, B, and O respectively).

If the clone has a trait controlled by a co-dominant relationship- i.e. the clone is Aa (AB in the blood example) we will never have ALL plants showing the trait- here is why:

Suppose the clone mother is Aa- the simplest possibility is that the dad used contributes one of his alleles,
let us say A. That mean the boy being use for the first backcross is either AA or Aa. We therefore have two possibilities:

1) If he is AA- we have AA X Aa- 50% of the offspring are AA, 50% are Aa. (you can do the punnett square to prove this to yourself).

In this case only 50% of the offspring show the desired phenotype (Aa genotype)!

2) If the boy being used is Aa- we have Aa X Aa (again do the punnett square) this gives a typical F2 type segregation- 25% AA, 50% Aa, and 25% aa.
This shows that a co-dominant trait can ONLY have 50% of the offspring showing the desired trait (Aa genotype) in a backcross.

If the phenotype is controlled by a dominant condition- see example #1- all 100% show the desired phenotype, but only 50% will breed true for it.

If the phenotype is controlled by a recessive condition- see example #2- only 25% will show the desired phenotype, however if used for breeding these will all breed true if mated to another aa individual.

Now- if the original dad (hashplant) donates an 'a' allele, we only have the possibilities that the offspring, from which the backcross boy will be chosen, will be either Aa or aa.
For the Aa boy, see #2.
For the aa boy (an example of a test cross, aa X Aa) we will have:
50% aa offspring (desired phenotype), and 50% Aa offspring.

Do you see what is happening here? Using this method of crossing to an Aa clone mother, we can NEVER have ALL the offspring showing the desired phenotype! Never! Never ever ever! Never!! LOL

The ONLY WAY to have all the offspring show a Aa phenotype is to cross an AA individual with an aa individual- all of the offspring from this union will be the desired phenotype, with an Aa genotype.

Now, all of that was for a Aa genotype for the desired phenotype. It isn't this complicated if the trait is AA or aa. I hope this causes every one to re-evaluate the importance of multiple backcrosses- it just doesn't work to stabilize the trait!

Also- that was all for a monogenic trait! What if the trait is controlled by a polygenic interaction or an epistatic interaction- it gets EVEN MORE complicated? AARRGH!!!!

Really, there is no need to do more than 1 backcross. From this one single backcross, as long as we know what we are doing, and grow out enough plants to find the right genotypes, we can succeed at the goal of eventually stabilizing most, if not all of the desired traits.

The confusion arises because we don't think about the underlying biological causes of these situations- to really understand this; we all need to understand meiosis.

We think of math-e.g. 50% G13, 50% hashplant

Next generation 50% G13 x 50% g13hp or (25% G13, 25%HP)

We interpret this as an additive property:
50% G13 + 25% G13 +25% HP = 75% G13 and 25% hashplant

This is unfortunately completely false- the same theory will apply for the so called 87.%% G13 12.5% HP next generation, and the following 93.25% G13, 6.25% HP generation; we'd like it to be true as it would make stabilizing traits fairly simple, but it JUST DOESN'T work that way. The above is based on a mathematical model, which seems to make sense- but it doesn't- we ignore the biological foundation that is really at play.

I hope this was clear, I know it can get confusing, and I may not have explained it well enough- sorry if that is the case, I'll try to clear up any questions or mistakes I may have made.

Have fun everyone while making your truebreeding varieties, but just remember that cubing (successive backcrosses) is not the way to do it!

-Chimera"
 
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Fahro420

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Pozdrav ekipa evo vako.
Pošto ove zime imam fin boxic.
Razmišljam da krenem u avanturu pravljenja svog straina naime želim
uzgojiti mušku biljozu,to mi je cilj pa
pokupiti polen,posaditi auto hemparu čije je sjeme hrana za papige.
Pa polen posuti kada hempara procvjeta.
Ako je neko o vako slično radio volio bih da se baci malo na temu pa da vidimo šta bi tu moglo izaći naravno bez obzira na sve tu će biti dnevnici pravljenja istog.